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What is going on?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:53 pm
by FROOT
It has been considerably evident at this point that some decisions made by the staff are taken in accord with their OOC interests/relationships with other members of the community. Which is all fine and dandy, as long as the same opportunities are provided to everyone else. Alas, it is unfortunate that such is not the case, for one reason or another...

With this fine ass introduction, I'll just move to the particular topic at hand: banned with vague reasoning. Now, logging in for the WRP today, I was notified by a random player, as he asked why I was banned from the WRP...

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Approaching the above-mentioned GM, I was redirected to Chiara to further "discuss" that. Sadly, there was not much discussion in regards to that, as I was waved away with some disregarding and patronising attitude.

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When asked to be provided with a screenshot of the "trolling" at hand, I was told that such was not available and that Chiara cannot confirm the reasoning behind that. Dismissing the matter yet again, I was told that there is WRP to be attended to and everything will be discussed after.

This is the screenshot that I've been provided by another player from the previous WRP when I was kicked out of the blue, allegedly, for "trolling".

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Now, I do understand where this is coming from, as there were a few emotes that were thrown at the time the event was paused and everyone was being teleported back to Konoha. But is that "trolling"?

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(A screenshot I asked to be provided by the Staff member in regards to the ban at the most recent WRP, and am still waiting for it...)


So here are my points listed out accordingly:
  • While the term is highly subjective and its meaning could be received with different degrees, how me being kicked out of the blue, or suddenly not allowed to participate in roleplay is reasonable? If my behaviour was deemed as "trolling" at the time by the staff members, don't you think a more sober and adult reaction would be to give away a warning first? I don't believe there was such.
  • When such a clash happens and a player is given some kind of a penalty, isn't it appropriate to approach said person and inform them of the matter? I had to be informed by a third party member right before the WRP was about to start, but the matter has, apparently, been discussed openly with other members of the community in Discord's Voice Chat.
  • Could we stop with the grudges and annoyance and act professionally, and I use that term loosely, when we are taking over such important roles as staff members, not talking about Administrators?

It'd be sad to lose yet another valuable member of the community ( 8-) ) due to poor staff behaviour.

P.S: The WRP event has already ended, and I have yet to be unbanned. gg
P.P.S: 12 hours later...
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Re: What is going on?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:14 pm
by Rizushin
Man, thas tuff

Re: What is going on?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:13 pm
by Chiara
Earlier this week during the WRP event, after you were not content with decisions made by staff, the RP was halted so I could explain some points to you, namely about the use of Bug clones. When I had explained the decision made by the staff you proceeded to say something like "I don't have time for this" and soon after made a troll emote. You were kicked for this and when you logged back in you continued trolling by spamming spells and running around erratically. Just before you were kicked I announced to the server that the event would be halted, progress would be logged and we would pick up the event later that week. Because you logged back in and continued to troll I made the decision to ban you from WRP for the at least a week, you claim to have not seen this, but it was said, in the presence of three other staff members.

Last night when you "found out" that you were banned from WRP events, you messaged me and I explained that I had told you, this was just before the start of the continuation of the aforementioned event. You requested screenshots of me having said that you were banned which I don't have, but that is no excuse to do whatever you like. Being banned in the presence of four staff members including the RPA is sufficient. I explained that I had to join the start of the event and this could be discussed further at a later time, you made the comment "see you there." despite being banned. When the event started you turned up and I asked you, politely, to leave or I would ban you for the duration of the event. You continued to argue, making claims such as I might as well have voided your entire RP. Frankly, you should of thought about that before you started trolling when something did not go your way. You refused to leave and you were banned.

Staff reserve the right to kick/mute/ban any player for the greater good of an event or the game in general, and without warning if necessary. I am quite sure, based on the conversations that had followed even if i had warned you to stop trolling you would have continued to argue. An event cannot continue if one player is so disruptive, and this affects everyone.
"don't you think a more sober and adult reaction would be to give away a warning first? I don't believe there was such."
Being kicked from an event and a temporary ban is a sober and adult reaction. No one "kicked off" you were simply removed and ultimately the event stopped.

If you are such a valued member of the community, and a seasoned JO player, it a shame you resort to trolling when things don't go your way. I continued to talk about the points raised during the event that displeased you this week but it seems that you lack any respect for staff and refuse to listen to what you are told, and so, I am not sure what point there is in trying to be helpful when you act the way you do.

Re: What is going on?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:20 pm
by FROOT
There was no discontent whatsoever in regards to the decisions made by staff, but, rather, a brief discussion was held for the duration of 5 minutes. Provided that the conversation was one-sided and linear, "I did not have time for this" and our party decided to continue onwards with the event. Whatever "trolling" you are referring to was done by the time the event was halted and postponed, hardly affecting the event so far or disrupting it. Kicking/banning for that makes no sense whatsoever.

Mentioning something in an OOC chat without a GM tag on could easily be missed/not seen. There are plenty of ways to notify a player of their actions, be it through an .ann or a /w. And, as far as I am aware, the OOC chat is not an official channel.

Considering that the warning was missed and not conveyed in the proper manner that it should have been, it naturally came as a shock to be notified by random players that I am banned from attending events, as they have heard it being discussed in voice chat. That time, ranging up to 4 days, could've easily been taken to notify me or discuss the matter, instead of having the conversation delayed by the time the new event was about to start and, further, postponed after it.

There is a ladder of offences that scale up to a ban and, perhaps, because you haven't had the experience around these areas of the internet prior to joining us, you do not realise how bad of an imprint this is on someone's "image". Especially when nothing was done to cause such an offence. There is no point to assume what could have happened now, considering that the damage has been done. Plus, hardly did the discussion go with me arguing against the staff, but it was our party discussing the flow of roleplay with yourself.

I am not sure where you get that perception of me being disrespectful, because it is hardly the depiction I am known for. The conversation that was continued further in DMs on Discord was a discussion of the points you made with the aim of coming to an agreement. Evidently, whatever I have said and whatever I had pointed out has been used in the revamp of that event yesterday in order to avoid confusion. Which is why I don't really understand how am I being rude and a "troll" when what I have done is turn your attention to missed problems and have them discussed.

Finally, respect is a thing that goes both ways. Kicking/banning out of the blue is hardly a form of it.

P.S: Members of staff are not meant to handle complaints made against them, and should be replied to by another GM due to the conflict of interest.

P.P.S: Mind you, you were the one who started the discussion/arguing during the roleplay, not the other way around.

Re: What is going on?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:12 pm
by Lunaru
Greetings, Froot.

Chiara requested me to review this and give you an answer, to check all the evidence so I could and give my two cents about the topic in question as an RPE that was not present there.


From what all the information I’ve gathered, I’ll present a few points so it can be easy to follow:


1- The moment of a dispute arises, you question Chiara’s decision on the “bug clone” technique which differs entirely from the explanation given more than once to you about this technique in particular.

Twisting the context of the staff’s instructions and ignoring them when they are giving you guidance about it, counts as a form of Powergaming.


2- The event was halted, not because of this but because most participants needed to go or were afk. However, this unnecessary reluctant stance towards the RPA’s (The highest authority in roleplay moderation in the entire game) instructions were worthy of first a kick thanks to a Powergaming emote made (Context: “Hibiki sends her bugs to a boat and kills everyone” - The result of a technique made by a character cannot be emoted by the author of the emote, this assumes an instant success of the technique (Powergaming)) and then a ban when you logged in once more and did (/yell PVP WARN), began jumping around and randomly summoning jutsu/spells.

Note: You were informed of being banned from the WRP after the first kick.

Considering you’re a seasoned player and should be knowledgeable of the game’s rules at this point (“Not knowing the rules” is not an excuse for blatantly breaking them). And indeed, a warning is not necessary when you very well know that what was done broke the game’s rules. Powergaming and metagaming respectively (Yelling “PVP warn” in character counts as using ooc information/context).

Please also consult the “Sanctions” section in this page https://bit.ly/2Nod8xh,
as there clearly states that the admins will use any tools at their disposal to deal with rule breaking or disruptive behavior (such as ignoring Game master's instructions).


Staff’s OOC relations/interests: this doesn’t go all to you, but to everyone. The staff do not and will never guide their judgment or final decisions depending on their ooc relations with other players and/or personal interests. Just because you’re close to one of the admins, have an “important” character, have a long time playing, etc does not mean rules won’t be enforced when you break them. However, any accusation (With evidence, not assumptions without any solid base or context) of abusive behavior from the staff should be reported in the respective forum section and WILL be dealt with.


Conclusion: The staff had an exceptional behavior, explained the player why the actions disputed were not possible in a polite way and dealt with the following offenses the best way possible.

Re: What is going on?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:35 pm
by FROOT
1- The moment of a dispute arises, you question Chiara’s decision on the “bug clone” technique which differs entirely from the explanation given more than once to you about this technique in particular.

Twisting the context of the staff’s instructions and ignoring them when they are giving you guidance about it, counts as a form of Powergaming.

Nothing was twisted out of context from the staff's instructions but was asked to be clarified, considering the shifting statements that have accompanied said instructions and consequent comments on the behalf of the RP team. The bug clones were discussed only once at that, I am unsure what you are referring to as being "explained to me more than once".

2- The event was halted, not because of this but because most participants needed to go or were afk. However, this unnecessary reluctant stance towards the RPA’s (The highest authority in roleplay moderation in the entire game) instructions were worthy of first a kick thanks to a Powergaming emote made (Context: “Hibiki sends her bugs to a boat and kills everyone” - The result of a technique made by a character cannot be emoted by the author of the emote, this assumes an instant success of the technique (Powergaming)) and then a ban when you logged in once more and did (/yell PVP WARN), began jumping around and randomly summoning jutsu/spells.

I don't see how any of this is valid when these emotes were made at the time of the event being paused, which makes them nothing but a voided, OOC reference as we waited to be teleported back to the village.

Powergaming and metagaming respectively (Yelling “PVP warn” in character counts as using ooc information/context).

Literally what.

Re: What is going on?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:00 pm
by Lunaru
1- The action (/yell PVP WARN) in question was made before the pause.
2- Even if the admin pauses the rp, you are not allowed to emote or /say even less with meta-context (Let alone that you returned to the event and used the /say [/yell] channel to do a "PVP warning" (????) ).
3- The cloning technique was explained to you more than once.

As I say, proof and evidence have been reviewed by me and chronologically, you didn't do the metagaming /yell after the pause was made at all.

I cannot see where the mistreatment was committed by our staff or how it is unfair to ban you from these events as you clearly refuse to follow simple instructions from the game masters.

My vote goes to classify this report as:

Null

Reason: Not clear proof was provided to determine that the staff members named here are abusing their positions or punishing the player unfairly. As stated above, the rules broken were pointed and they were enforced correctly.

Re: What is going on?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:13 pm
by FROOT
Would be nice to see whatever receipts you're using to come up to such a conclusion, considering that nothing here could've been provided by Chiara to sustain her claim in terms of logs/screenshots.

Also,
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Literally. It's been discussed once in terms of why bugs cannot form a clone.

Re: What is going on?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:23 pm
by Chiara
Since Luna has made his final remarks we have nothing else that we need to clarify I will be locking the topic. A polite reminder that you are still banned from WRP events until further notice, I will contact you when that changes. Please do not attempt to participate in these events, if you do you will be banned for the duration of the event